Amazon Sales

[Pent]

I havn't signed up for Amazon's market yet, mainly due to the pricing
policy and tax/payment difficulties for non-US developers.

However, at some point, if Amazon sales become significant I'd have to
reconsider I guess. Also I've started getting user queries about it.

Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

Probably others are interested too.

TIA!

Pent

[Brian Conrad]

Post by Pent
I havn't signed up for Amazon's market yet, mainly due to the pricing
policy and tax/payment difficulties for non-US developers.
However, at some point, if Amazon sales become significant I'd have to
reconsider I guess. Also I've started getting user queries about it.
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?
Probably others are interested too.
TIA!
Pent

I decided to jump through their hoops this last week. They sorta push
you right into uploading an app and most of the upload page has "what's
this" links on it but the stuff I screwed up didn't. Then they point
you to FAQ which are down at the bottom of the web page when they
"pause" the submission. In the first case it was that the 114x114
graphic (which is only explained in the FAQ) didn't "match" the app icon
exactly. Then because the app uses Google Maps I needed the alternate
way of signed app submission which their responsive support team
provided. Yes they actually have a support team.

Overall Amazon may be better for reaching customers who don't have
devices with the Google API on them. I have editions without Google
Maps built with just the Android API. I offer the full versions on my
website through SWReg for customers who don't have the paid Android
Market in their country but I think people are wary of "unknown sources"
for Android phones though I've been in business since 1997 with Windows,
Palm and Pocket PC software.

I have a Cruz Velocity tablet and checking the Cruz Market discovered
that the Amazon Store app is available there. So if you're looking to
reach that market segment it may be worthwhile.

[Brandon Newsome]

They have a support team?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Post by Pent
I havn't signed up for Amazon's market yet, mainly due to the pricing
policy and tax/payment difficulties for non-US developers.
However, at some point, if Amazon sales become significant I'd have to
reconsider I guess. Also I've started getting user queries about it.
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?
Probably others are interested too.
TIA!
Pent

I decided to jump through their hoops this last week. They sorta push
you right into uploading an app and most of the upload page has "what's
this" links on it but the stuff I screwed up didn't. Then they point
you to FAQ which are down at the bottom of the web page when they
"pause" the submission. In the first case it was that the 114x114
graphic (which is only explained in the FAQ) didn't "match" the app icon
exactly. Then because the app uses Google Maps I needed the alternate
way of signed app submission which their responsive support team
provided. Yes they actually have a support team.
Overall Amazon may be better for reaching customers who don't have
devices with the Google API on them. I have editions without Google
Maps built with just the Android API. I offer the full versions on my
website through SWReg for customers who don't have the paid Android
Market in their country but I think people are wary of "unknown sources"
for Android phones though I've been in business since 1997 with Windows,
Palm and Pocket PC software.
I have a Cruz Velocity tablet and checking the Cruz Market discovered
that the Amazon Store app is available there. So if you're looking to
reach that market segment it may be worthwhile.
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[Brian Conrad]

Yup, and a ticket system, the whole nine yards. Amazon is not a
lemonade stand. ;-)

Post by Brandon Newsome
They have a support team?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Post by Pent
I havn't signed up for Amazon's market yet, mainly due to the pricing
policy and tax/payment difficulties for non-US developers.
However, at some point, if Amazon sales become significant I'd have to
reconsider I guess. Also I've started getting user queries about it.
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?
Probably others are interested too.
TIA!
Pent

I decided to jump through their hoops this last week. They sorta push
you right into uploading an app and most of the upload page has "what's
this" links on it but the stuff I screwed up didn't. Then they point
you to FAQ which are down at the bottom of the web page when they
"pause" the submission. In the first case it was that the 114x114
graphic (which is only explained in the FAQ) didn't "match" the app icon
exactly. Then because the app uses Google Maps I needed the alternate
way of signed app submission which their responsive support team
provided. Yes they actually have a support team.
Overall Amazon may be better for reaching customers who don't have
devices with the Google API on them. I have editions without Google
Maps built with just the Android API. I offer the full versions on my
website through SWReg for customers who don't have the paid Android
Market in their country but I think people are wary of "unknown sources"
for Android phones though I've been in business since 1997 with Windows,
Palm and Pocket PC software.
I have a Cruz Velocity tablet and checking the Cruz Market discovered
that the Amazon Store app is available there. So if you're looking to
reach that market segment it may be worthwhile.
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[blindfold]

Post by Pent
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

My app is free, but download ratio is about 1:100, so it is doing
really bad on Amazon.

Unless things change for the better I see no reason to continue with
Amazon after their one free year.

Regards

Post by Pent
I havn't signed up for Amazon's market yet, mainly due to the pricing
policy and tax/payment difficulties for non-US developers.
However, at some point, if Amazon sales become significant I'd have to
reconsider I guess. Also I've started getting user queries about it.
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?
Probably others are interested too.
TIA!
Pent

[adamxcl]

Although I had high hopes, my experience has been pretty sad. I'd have
to say it isn't worth the process until they get their act together.

I submitted two apps and followed their screens pretty well. About a
week later, both apps are approved. But then they need to go through a
second mysterious process after approval before going live. I think
it's where they set it up to work live on the web for users to test. 5
days after being approved, App A is rejected because I didn't set up
the Google API for Maps properly. Their initial screens really don't
make it very clear until you have gone back with a point of reference.

I correct that and resubmit it. I know the second app, App B should be
rejected with the same API problem. There is no way online to pull a
app yourself. You have to email support or wait until they do
something about it. They make App B, with the API problem live in the
store for users even though it doesn't work.

I resubmit App B with the new API key and it is approved in a few days
and goes live a few days later.
3 Amazon sales during the same time of 601 sales on the regular
market.

App A is "approved" and waiting to go live in the store 27 days later.
During that time, I have updated the normal market version a couple of
times so the Amazon app is already behind and I'd have to go through
this all this again.

Pretty ridiculous right now.

Post by Pent
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

[Pent]

Thanks for your input folks.

It doesn't sound like something I want to go through until their sales
increase dramatically!

Pent

Post by adamxcl
Although I had high hopes, my experience has been pretty sad. I'd have
to say it isn't worth the process until they get their act together.
I submitted two apps and followed their screens pretty well. About a
week later, both apps are approved. But then they need to go through a
second mysterious process after approval before going live. I think
it's where they set it up to work live on the web for users to test. 5
days after being approved, App A is rejected because I didn't set up
the Google API for Maps properly. Their initial screens really don't
make it very clear until you have gone back with a point of reference.
I correct that and resubmit it. I know the second app, App B should be
rejected with the same API problem. There is no way online to pull a
app yourself. You have to email support or wait until they do
something about it. They make App B, with the API problem live in the
store for users even though it doesn't work.
I resubmit App B with the new API key and it is approved in a few days
and goes live a few days later.
3 Amazon sales during the same time of 601 sales on the regular
market.
App A is "approved" and waiting to go live in the store 27 days later.
During that time, I have updated the normal market version a couple of
times so the Amazon app is already behind and I'd have to go through
this all this again.
Pretty ridiculous right now.

Post by Pent
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

[Nathan]

2% and that includes a bunch of people that I sent Amazon Gift Cards
(because you can't do discount codes in Market).

On some *really* good days, I've had three sales.

I haven't tried putting my free trial app there yet - it's a bit more
work, but I will wait and see.

At this point, everyone who has the Amazon Market has the Android one
too. Once Amazon comes out with an Android Kindle, that will change.

Nathan

[Brian Conrad]

Post by Nathan
At this point, everyone who has the Amazon Market has the Android one
too. Once Amazon comes out with an Android Kindle, that will change.
Nathan

Nope, my Velocity Cruz T103 does not have the Android Market but the
Amazon store was available from the Cruz and I installed it. Many
inexpensive tablets like the Cruz, Coby, etc. are Android API only and
don't have the Android Market. They are alternative markets like the
AppStore and SlideMe and now Amazon. Makes sense since Amazon sells
some of these tablets.

[niko20]

yep same old story. I have my apps on Amazon and maybe I'll sell one
copy a day. On Google I usually sold at least 50-70 copies and day and
sometimes more. So like 1:100 ratio. Yuck. As predicted, oh well. :)

-nik

Post by Brian Conrad

Post by Nathan
At this point, everyone who has the Amazon Market has the Android one
too. Once Amazon comes out with an Android Kindle, that will change.
Nathan

Nope, my Velocity Cruz T103 does not have the Android Market but the
Amazon store was available from the Cruz and I installed it.  Many
inexpensive tablets like the Cruz, Coby, etc. are Android API only and
don't have the Android Market.  They are alternative markets like the
AppStore and SlideMe and now Amazon.  Makes sense since Amazon sells
some of these tablets.

[Psym]

I've had what appears to be an unusually good experience so far. Over the
two months since launch I've averaged about 10% of the android market sales.
That's more than I was expecting and enough to make the initial effort worth
while (as a non-US developer I needed to fill in a form and get a US tax
identifier in addition to the normal app submission process).

I found Amazon support to be very helpful. They are responsive and available
to talk to through direct personal email and telephone - a huge improvement
over the "I hope they see this forum post" method of contacting Google.

[blindfold]

Post by Psym
I found Amazon support to be very helpful.

I agree with that. They were surprisingly quick to implement my
request to make provisions to their developer web interface to let one
withdraw an already submitted app in case one finds that it contains a
bad bug while waiting for review, such that I could next put a fixed
update under review without waiting for the faulty submission to get
accepted (or declined).

Post by Psym
I've had what appears to be an unusually good experience so far. Over the
two months since launch I've averaged about 10% of the android market sales.
That's more than I was expecting and enough to make the initial effort worth
while (as a non-US developer I needed to fill in a form and get a US tax
identifier in addition to the normal app submission process).
I found Amazon support to be very helpful. They are responsive and available
to talk to through direct personal email and telephone - a huge improvement
over the "I hope they see this forum post" method of contacting Google.

[Chris Becker]

Post by Pent
Thanks for your input folks.
[the amazon market] doesn't sound like something I want to go through until their sales
increase dramatically!

In addition to the upcoming kindle, AT&T has recently changed their
policy on allowing other software sources for installs. This will
first be applied with the Samsung Infuse getting released next week.
Considering their current "Android-centric" push, there could be a
bump in Amazon sales from AT&T users. I don't know if they have any
plans to push a firmware update to existing phones to enable other
software sources or not. Even still, it will probably take some
significant widespread discounts on the Amazon market to get people
buying over there regularly if the same options are available already
direct form Google...

Amazon either needs to offer some heavy developer incentives for
hosting diversified/uniqe aplications and eatures or else start giving
buyers special discounts or rebates to use elsewhere on the amazon
storefront.

[Brian Conrad]

Post by Chris Becker

Post by Pent
Thanks for your input folks.
[the amazon market] doesn't sound like something I want to go through until their sales
increase dramatically!

In addition to the upcoming kindle, AT&T has recently changed their
policy on allowing other software sources for installs. This will
first be applied with the Samsung Infuse getting released next week.
Considering their current "Android-centric" push, there could be a
bump in Amazon sales from AT&T users. I don't know if they have any
plans to push a firmware update to existing phones to enable other
software sources or not. Even still, it will probably take some
significant widespread discounts on the Amazon market to get people
buying over there regularly if the same options are available already
direct form Google...
Amazon either needs to offer some heavy developer incentives for
hosting diversified/uniqe aplications and eatures or else start giving
buyers special discounts or rebates to use elsewhere on the amazon
storefront.

Their claim is that they can effectively "market" the product whereas
that's "self serve" on the Android Market. My problem with that is my
stuff is niche and you have to know the field use it. It will be
interesting to see how they're going to market or even test my apps if
they don't have people who understand it. :-D

[Nathan]

Now Amazon is offering me a (coveted?) spot in their free app a day
program.

According to the rep, "Right now, the going price is 0% rev share (I
am not charging for the placement yet)."

In the terms of the agreement they want me to sign, they get to give
away my app for free for a day as part of the free app rotation. In
exchange, I get zero.

So I am not going to be charged to give my app away for free. Hooray!

I only see Amazon benefiting from this arrangement, so I am leaning
towards a decline.

He says:
"would bring your company a ton of excellent marketing with high
reviews"

I'm doubting the high reviews. People who will buy any software, as
long as it's free, are unlikely to see the value of my app. They are
the most likely to leave one star reviews because they didn't take
time to learn the app, or expect it to do a bunch of things that I
never promised.

Sure, it will give more exposure, but the people who were exposed
won't exactly buy something else from me if I don't have another app.

Nathan

[Brandon Newsome]

I'm sorry but that's just ghetto. They may have have some slightly better
features than Android Market, but as far as the millions of users -- not so
much. I'd just e-mail an "lol o rly?" back and be done. :P

Post by Nathan
Now Amazon is offering me a (coveted?) spot in their free app a day
program.
According to the rep, "Right now, the going price is 0% rev share (I
am not charging for the placement yet)."
In the terms of the agreement they want me to sign, they get to give
away my app for free for a day as part of the free app rotation. In
exchange, I get zero.
So I am not going to be charged to give my app away for free. Hooray!
I only see Amazon benefiting from this arrangement, so I am leaning
towards a decline.
"would bring your company a ton of excellent marketing with high
reviews"
I'm doubting the high reviews. People who will buy any software, as
long as it's free, are unlikely to see the value of my app. They are
the most likely to leave one star reviews because they didn't take
time to learn the app, or expect it to do a bunch of things that I
never promised.
Sure, it will give more exposure, but the people who were exposed
won't exactly buy something else from me if I don't have another app.
Nathan
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[Brian Conrad]

Post by Nathan
Now Amazon is offering me a (coveted?) spot in their free app a day
program.
According to the rep, "Right now, the going price is 0% rev share (I
am not charging for the placement yet)."
In the terms of the agreement they want me to sign, they get to give
away my app for free for a day as part of the free app rotation. In
exchange, I get zero.
So I am not going to be charged to give my app away for free. Hooray!
I only see Amazon benefiting from this arrangement, so I am leaning
towards a decline.
"would bring your company a ton of excellent marketing with high
reviews"
I'm doubting the high reviews. People who will buy any software, as
long as it's free, are unlikely to see the value of my app. They are
the most likely to leave one star reviews because they didn't take
time to learn the app, or expect it to do a bunch of things that I
never promised.
Sure, it will give more exposure, but the people who were exposed
won't exactly buy something else from me if I don't have another app.
Nathan

Some time I'm going to find a 10 minute marketing course link we can all
benefit from. This will explain how giving away an app for a day may
increase your overall sales. And don't forget that the Android Market
offered an opportunity for developers to lower their price for the
holiday season to spur more sales. I have picked up deals at Fry's for
a $90 piece of software where after "instant savings" and "upgrade
rebate" the price amounted to $20. Or even some things that are free
after rebate. Or even inexpensive USB sticks and cables that are "loss
leaders" to get you into the store. I suspect that the majority of us
here know how to code an app but little about marketing it.

My first submission to Amazon got approved so I'll see how that goes and
I would love to know if these Android devices are comings sans Android
Market and maybe even Google API. I have some special editions of my
software apps that can run without the Google API though the use of Maps
was a great extra but as I've mentioned before the inexpensive gear (not
everyone wants to pay even $300 for a tablet) doesn't come with the
Google API. This is a good opportunity to reach that market especially
for people without credit card who can pick up an Amazon gift card at
the grocery store.

[Felipemnoa]

I have no doubt that they know what they are doing. It is the way that they tell us "screw you" that really bothers me.

Post by Nathan
Now Amazon is offering me a (coveted?) spot in their free app a day
program.
According to the rep, "Right now, the going price is 0% rev share (I
am not charging for the placement yet)."
In the terms of the agreement they want me to sign, they get to give
away my app for free for a day as part of the free app rotation. In
exchange, I get zero.
So I am not going to be charged to give my app away for free. Hooray!
I only see Amazon benefiting from this arrangement, so I am leaning
towards a decline.
"would bring your company a ton of excellent marketing with high
reviews"
I'm doubting the high reviews. People who will buy any software, as
long as it's free, are unlikely to see the value of my app. They are
the most likely to leave one star reviews because they didn't take
time to learn the app, or expect it to do a bunch of things that I
never promised.
Sure, it will give more exposure, but the people who were exposed
won't exactly buy something else from me if I don't have another app.
Nathan

Some time I'm going to find a 10 minute marketing course link we can all benefit from. This will explain how giving away an app for a day may increase your overall sales. And don't forget that the Android Market offered an opportunity for developers to lower their price for the holiday season to spur more sales. I have picked up deals at Fry's for a $90 piece of software where after "instant savings" and "upgrade rebate" the price amounted to $20. Or even some things that are free after rebate. Or even inexpensive USB sticks and cables that are "loss leaders" to get you into the store. I suspect that the majority of us here know how to code an app but little about marketing it.
My first submission to Amazon got approved so I'll see how that goes and I would love to know if these Android devices are comings sans Android Market and maybe even Google API. I have some special editions of my software apps that can run without the Google API though the use of Maps was a great extra but as I've mentioned before the inexpensive gear (not everyone wants to pay even $300 for a tablet) doesn't come with the Google API. This is a good opportunity to reach that market especially for people without credit card who can pick up an Amazon gift card at the grocery store.
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[Tim Mensch]

Post by Brian Conrad
Some time I'm going to find a 10 minute marketing course link we can
all benefit from. This will explain how giving away an app for a day
may increase your overall sales.

If it's about raising your app in the ratings, then yes, there can be a
net win. But there are other ways to raise your app in the ratings
without devaluing it (and ALL apps!) in the mind of consumers.

Post by Brian Conrad
And don't forget that the Android Market offered an opportunity for
developers to lower their price for the holiday season to spur more
sales. I have picked up deals at Fry's for a $90 piece of software
where after "instant savings" and "upgrade rebate" the price amounted
to $20. Or even some things that are free after rebate.

Anything where there's a rebate form involved they're counting on some
large percentage of people not filling in the form; I forget the
numbers, but something like 60% of people don't follow through, so a
"$10" off coupon typically only costs them $4, on average (if I'm
remembering the numbers right).

Post by Brian Conrad
Or even inexpensive USB sticks and cables that are "loss leaders" to
get you into the store.

THAT is what giving away free apps on Amazon seems most like to me. And
that's why it seems like they have some gall asking people to give away
their apps for a day. Yes you'd get exposure in front of a lot of users,
but you'd probably get MORE exposure with a pay-per-install advertising
agreement. Apparently TapJoy was doing such a good job boosting app
ratings that they were forced to limit their effectiveness by Apple:

http://venturebeat.com/2011/04/25/tapjoy-limits-certain-promotions-after-apple-rejects-a-series-of-apps/

With a deal like that you can promote a paid app by giving away your
entire profit to "buy" a higher rating, which is immediately useful to
gain more purchases. I'd want some kind of guarantee from Amazon that my
ratings would stay high following the promotion, or otherwise all you
get is a small amount of name recognition from the people who saw the
app during the promotion, plus any additional word-of-mouth generated
from the free installs. The latter could be significant, depending on
your app, but I can get that word-of-mouth from TapJoy and other similar
advertisers, and I don't have to give the ENTIRE profit away at the same
time (though I know someone who does).

Post by Brian Conrad
I suspect that the majority of us here know how to code an app but
little about marketing it.

Are you claiming to know better? Then please enlighten us instead of
just teasing us with hints.

Post by Brian Conrad
My first submission to Amazon got approved so I'll see how that goes
and I would love to know if these Android devices are comings sans
Android Market and maybe even Google API.

Congrats. Be sure to let us know how that works out for you. :)

Tim

[Felipemnoa]

Agree

Post by Tim Mensch

Post by Brian Conrad
Some time I'm going to find a 10 minute marketing course link we can
all benefit from. This will explain how giving away an app for a day
may increase your overall sales.

If it's about raising your app in the ratings, then yes, there can be a
net win. But there are other ways to raise your app in the ratings
without devaluing it (and ALL apps!) in the mind of consumers.

Post by Brian Conrad
And don't forget that the Android Market offered an opportunity for
developers to lower their price for the holiday season to spur more
sales. I have picked up deals at Fry's for a $90 piece of software
where after "instant savings" and "upgrade rebate" the price amounted
to $20. Or even some things that are free after rebate.

Anything where there's a rebate form involved they're counting on some
large percentage of people not filling in the form; I forget the
numbers, but something like 60% of people don't follow through, so a
"$10" off coupon typically only costs them $4, on average (if I'm
remembering the numbers right).

Post by Brian Conrad
Or even inexpensive USB sticks and cables that are "loss leaders" to
get you into the store.

THAT is what giving away free apps on Amazon seems most like to me. And
that's why it seems like they have some gall asking people to give away
their apps for a day. Yes you'd get exposure in front of a lot of users,
but you'd probably get MORE exposure with a pay-per-install advertising
agreement. Apparently TapJoy was doing such a good job boosting app
http://venturebeat.com/2011/04/25/tapjoy-limits-certain-promotions-after-apple-rejects-a-series-of-apps/
With a deal like that you can promote a paid app by giving away your
entire profit to "buy" a higher rating, which is immediately useful to
gain more purchases. I'd want some kind of guarantee from Amazon that my
ratings would stay high following the promotion, or otherwise all you
get is a small amount of name recognition from the people who saw the
app during the promotion, plus any additional word-of-mouth generated
from the free installs. The latter could be significant, depending on
your app, but I can get that word-of-mouth from TapJoy and other similar
advertisers, and I don't have to give the ENTIRE profit away at the same
time (though I know someone who does).

Post by Brian Conrad
I suspect that the majority of us here know how to code an app but
little about marketing it.

Are you claiming to know better? Then please enlighten us instead of
just teasing us with hints.

Post by Brian Conrad
My first submission to Amazon got approved so I'll see how that goes
and I would love to know if these Android devices are comings sans
Android Market and maybe even Google API.

Congrats. Be sure to let us know how that works out for you. :)
Tim
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[Nathan]

Post by Brian Conrad
Some time I'm going to find a 10 minute marketing course link we can all
benefit from.   

Now, not "some time", would be a good time to post said link. I have
to make a decision soon. And I have invested plenty enough time in
learning marketing to know exactly how much I don't know.

Post by Brian Conrad
This will explain how giving away an app for a day may
increase your overall sales.

I know exactly how Amazon will benefit. And I am in complete agreement
about the "may" part. I don't doubt it will work for some apps. But
that is not the same as working for my app. It would probably increase
my sales at Amazon, but that doesn't mean it will increase overall
sales - or overall profit. And as others have pointed out, it is not
the only way to increase sales and/or rankings.

This can easily benefit apps that make money through ads (not me),
that have a healthy in app purchase market, or that have other apps
available as an upsale (or cross sale). I know I need to have some in-
app purchase available - I'm working on it.

The incremental cost of X more users isn't zero. I expect some support
costs for people who got the app just because it was free and then
expect it to do a bunch of things it doesn't.

Has anyone tried this? How many takers did you get? If it isn't a lot,
I might be inclined to do it for the experimental value, fully
expecting to lose money.

Post by Brian Conrad
 Or even inexpensive USB sticks and cables that are "loss
leaders" to get you into the store.

That is the perfect example. I seriously doubt the USB stick
manufacturer gives a truckload of their product to Best Buy for free
so that Best Buy can get more customers. That is exactly what Amazon
has asked for.

Post by Brian Conrad
 I suspect that the majority of us
here know how to code an app but little about marketing it.

Don't assume I'm that good at coding. ;)

I've invested enough time in studying marketing that I am fully aware
of how much I don't know. I'm well aware of the value of offering free
apps. I've been giving away Amazon gift cards every week - and that
costs me 30%, but I target them.

Nathan

[JP]

Post by Nathan
I know exactly how Amazon will benefit. And I am in complete agreement
about the "may" part. I don't doubt it will work for some apps. But
that is not the same as working for my app.

One more aspect - let me offer the speculation that we're used as
Guinea Pigs to stand in for more traditional industries. Amazon's end
game in my view is to manipulate sales of record industry and book/
magazine publisher products, based on what Amazon's learned when
selling apps.

[Psym]

Post by Nathan
Has anyone tried this? How many takers did you get? If it isn't a lot,
I might be inclined to do it for the experimental value, fully
expecting to lose money.

I had a free app of the day a couple of weeks back. Around 100k downloads
occurred on that day. I didn't notice any upswing in support requests - I
don't know if this is because Amazon are the first level support for their
market, or if it's because our apps are quite established and we don't get a
lot of issues anymore anyway.

On the day immediately after the promotion sales increased to over 6000% of
the previous average daily sales. As the game fell down the bestseller list
it seems to be settling at around 500% of previous levels. Needless to say,
I think the promotion is worth taking up (I have another app featuring in
the promotion soon).

[Felipemnoa]

If you go from one app per day to 10 apps per day that would be 1000% increase. Not really impresive to tell you the truth. Not for wanting to have far more control than even Apple.

Post by Nathan
Has anyone tried this? How many takers did you get? If it isn't a lot,
I might be inclined to do it for the experimental value, fully
expecting to lose money.
I had a free app of the day a couple of weeks back. Around 100k downloads occurred on that day. I didn't notice any upswing in support requests - I don't know if this is because Amazon are the first level support for their market, or if it's because our apps are quite established and we don't get a lot of issues anymore anyway.
On the day immediately after the promotion sales increased to over 6000% of the previous average daily sales. As the game fell down the bestseller list it seems to be settling at around 500% of previous levels. Needless to say, I think the promotion is worth taking up (I have another app featuring in the promotion soon).
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[Psym]

Post by Felipemnoa
If you go from one app per day to 10 apps per day that would be 1000%
increase. Not really impresive to tell you the truth. Not for wanting to
have far more control than even Apple.

Umm... ok, and if you are selling 100 a day then 1000% would be 1000. I'm
not sure what your point is. Are you saying that 1000% isn't good? If a
salesman improved that much he'd be employee of the year.

I think that an app which did have a single download a day would actually
see a much higher percentage increase since I suspect that the impact of the
free app of the day is most likely an absolute increase in numbers rather
than relative. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is relative and
that you are only selling a single app a day; why would you turn down the
opportunity to sell 10 a day instead?

Anyway, it's obviously up to the approached developer whether to go ahead,
but I'm just putting it out there that I'd consider our experience with it a
success.

[Al Sutton]

I think the point is that measuring things in percentage increases is of little value when most people are interested in absolute values.

Saying an increase of 1000% doesn't tell anyone whether you're getting 10 downloads per day or 1000, and if you're getting 10 things are far less interesting than if you're getting 1000.

Al.
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The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries.

Post by Felipemnoa
If you go from one app per day to 10 apps per day that would be 1000% increase. Not really impresive to tell you the truth. Not for wanting to have far more control than even Apple.
Umm... ok, and if you are selling 100 a day then 1000% would be 1000. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that 1000% isn't good? If a salesman improved that much he'd be employee of the year.
I think that an app which did have a single download a day would actually see a much higher percentage increase since I suspect that the impact of the free app of the day is most likely an absolute increase in numbers rather than relative. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is relative and that you are only selling a single app a day; why would you turn down the opportunity to sell 10 a day instead?
Anyway, it's obviously up to the approached developer whether to go ahead, but I'm just putting it out there that I'd consider our experience with it a success.
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[Psym]

Fair enough, but I try to avoid publishing real numbers as in my experience
people can get upset when you start giving absolute numbers.

[webmonkey]

I am guessing between 50 and 100 sales a day based on the position of
the app in the bestseller list ;-)

Anyway, did you also get the 0% rev share for the FAAD promotion that
Nathan was offered?

Post by Psym
Fair enough, but I try to avoid publishing real numbers as in my experience
people can get upset when you start giving absolute numbers.

[Nathan]

Thank you for sharing.

As one way of looking at it, do you think that you will get customers
equal to the number of copies you gave away in a reasonable timeframe?
Or is that even worthwhile to measure or worry about?

If I did give away 100k copies and then multiplied my sales by 5 (for
a total of ten), it would take thirty years to get 100K sales. The
buzz from the promotion won't last that long.

You probably can't measure this, but I wonder if some Amazon sales are
simply shifting some sales from the Android Market.

My app is the bestseller of paid apps in its category on Amazon even
with just two sales on a good day, through being on a global
bestseller list is certainly more powerful.

If I managed to get 100K customers on the free day, that's six times
my total sales to date in Android Market. The free customers would
probably fall in these categories:
-App Junkies: Will download anything that's free. Few additional
support costs as they may never get around to using the app anyway.
-Those who would have found my app and paid for it anyway. In this
case, it costs me real money - 70% of the price per user.
-Those who would be willing to pay for my app, but wouldn't have found
it without this promotion. I can't say I've lost anything here, but I
should consider if there is another way to reach them.
-Those who would like and use my app, but on principle would never
ever pay for an app. These will have the most support costs, because
of their overwhelming sense of entitlement.

It is hard to tell how many of each group I would get, but based on
the fact that you had a good experience, this may be worth doing.

Nathan

Post by Psym
Fair enough, but I try to avoid publishing real numbers as in my experience
people can get upset when you start giving absolute numbers.

[Psym]

Post by Nathan
As one way of looking at it, do you think that you will get customers
equal to the number of copies you gave away in a reasonable timeframe?
Or is that even worthwhile to measure or worry about?
If I did give away 100k copies and then multiplied my sales by 5 (for
a total of ten), it would take thirty years to get 100K sales. The
buzz from the promotion won't last that long.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the 100k wouldn't have
purchased the app anyway. Given that there are supposed to be something like
300k activations a day, there are many new potential customers the next day,
and the ones that use Amazon market will be seeing your app in the Top X
apps. Being highly visible in a growing market brings in loads of ongoing
sales - you can see this by the number of early android apps still hanging
around near the top of the rankings in the android market. It's only going
to get harder to stand out in future.

The trouble is that the benefit of exposure is so hard to measure and would
depend on the type of app, and whether you have other apps on the market.

Post by Nathan
You probably can't measure this, but I wonder if some Amazon sales are
simply shifting some sales from the Android Market.

Yeah, this is a hard one to measure. I've not noticed a fall in sales. In
fact they have increased, but this is likely due to the new countries added
recently rather than the Amazon sales and it's impossible to tell if the
increase in sales would have been larger without the free app promotion.

[niko20]

Psym, seriously, nobody is going to get "jealous" or "annoyed" if you
post some real numbers. Just ballpark it. Frankly we as developers
need to know if Amazon is worth our time. So far it's been pretty
slow. I have an app that sells as I said, 50-70 copies a day on
Android Market, and during holidays it was up to 200 copies a day. On
Amazon though I'm lucky if I do 1-2 a day.

-niko

Post by Psym

Post by Nathan
As one way of looking at it, do you think that you will get customers
equal to the number of copies you gave away in a reasonable timeframe?
Or is that even worthwhile to measure or worry about?  
If I did give away 100k copies and then multiplied my sales by 5 (for
a total of ten), it would take thirty years to get 100K sales. The
buzz from the promotion won't last that long.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the 100k wouldn't have
purchased the app anyway. Given that there are supposed to be something like
300k activations a day, there are many new potential customers the next day,
and the ones that use Amazon market will be seeing your app in the Top X
apps. Being highly visible in a growing market brings in loads of ongoing
sales - you can see this by the number of early android apps still hanging
around near the top of the rankings in the android market. It's only going
to get harder to stand out in future.
The trouble is that the benefit of exposure is so hard to measure and would
depend on the type of app, and whether you have other apps on the market.

Post by Nathan
You probably can't measure this, but I wonder if some Amazon sales are
simply shifting some sales from the Android Market.

Yeah, this is a hard one to measure. I've not noticed a fall in sales. In
fact they have increased, but this is likely due to the new countries added
recently rather than the Amazon sales and it's impossible to tell if the
increase in sales would have been larger without the free app promotion.

[Psym]

You wouldn't believe the dozens of emails (and app comments) I received when
posting numbers on a little-read development blog a while back, but in the
interests of getting a deteriorating conversation on track, Market sales of
the that app average around 250 pd, Amazon sales of the same app were about
20 pd before the promotion.

[Felipemnoa]

My point is that one would need the actual numbers to make an informed decision. If you are starting from zero then is really easy to multiply your sales. Is the same true if you already have traction? Would it make that much of adifference? I.e would it help angry birds? I think Amazon is asking too much for too little in return.

Post by Felipemnoa
If you go from one app per day to 10 apps per day that would be 1000% increase. Not really impresive to tell you the truth. Not for wanting to have far more control than even Apple.
Umm... ok, and if you are selling 100 a day then 1000% would be 1000. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that 1000% isn't good? If a salesman improved that much he'd be employee of the year.
I think that an app which did have a single download a day would actually see a much higher percentage increase since I suspect that the impact of the free app of the day is most likely an absolute increase in numbers rather than relative. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is relative and that you are only selling a single app a day; why would you turn down the opportunity to sell 10 a day instead?
Anyway, it's obviously up to the approached developer whether to go ahead, but I'm just putting it out there that I'd consider our experience with it a success.
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[Tim Mensch]

A related point is this: If Amazon sales make up 1% of your Android
sales, and your Amazon sales increase by 1000% for a day after the
giveaway and settle at 500% for a few weeks (bringing it up to ~10% and
then ~5% of your Market sales), but your Android sales drop 20% right
away because you've just given away your app to those users who would
have bought it on freebie day, and settle at 5% lower because of a
resulting loss of ranking in the Android Market, you could come out with
a wash or a net loss as a result.

Also, as Felipemnoa pointed out, the NET numbers make a huge difference.
If the promotion takes you from 1 to 10 units, or even 10 to 100 units,
a similar promotion might make a relevant difference for an app that's
already at 200 units a day.

Tim

Post by Felipemnoa
My point is that one would need the actual numbers to make an informed
decision. If you are starting from zero then is really easy to
multiply your sales. Is the same true if you already have traction?
Would it make that much of adifference? I.e would it help angry birds?
I think Amazon is asking too much for too little in return.

Post by Felipemnoa
If you go from one app per day to 10 apps per day that would be
1000% increase. Not really impresive to tell you the truth. Not
for wanting to have far more control than even Apple.
Umm... ok, and if you are selling 100 a day then 1000% would be 1000.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that 1000% isn't
good? If a salesman improved that much he'd be employee of the year.
I think that an app which did have a single download a day would
actually see a much higher percentage increase since I suspect that
the impact of the free app of the day is most likely an absolute
increase in numbers rather than relative. But for the sake of
argument, let's say it is relative and that you are only selling a
single app a day; why would you turn down the opportunity to sell 10
a day instead?
Anyway, it's obviously up to the approached developer whether to go
ahead, but I'm just putting it out there that I'd consider our
experience with it a success.
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[Felipemnoa]

It just feels like amazon is using us. If they win and become more popular than google's market place I get the feeling that they will be worse than apple. Dictating whatever they want just because they can. At least in Apple you can still set your own price.

The Google market place is not perfect but being able to make instant updates is priceless IMO.

Post by Pent
Thanks for your input folks.
It doesn't sound like something I want to go through until their sales
increase dramatically!
Pent

Post by adamxcl
Although I had high hopes, my experience has been pretty sad. I'd have
to say it isn't worth the process until they get their act together.
I submitted two apps and followed their screens pretty well. About a
week later, both apps are approved. But then they need to go through a
second mysterious process after approval before going live. I think
it's where they set it up to work live on the web for users to test. 5
days after being approved, App A is rejected because I didn't set up
the Google API for Maps properly. Their initial screens really don't
make it very clear until you have gone back with a point of reference.
I correct that and resubmit it. I know the second app, App B should be
rejected with the same API problem. There is no way online to pull a
app yourself. You have to email support or wait until they do
something about it. They make App B, with the API problem live in the
store for users even though it doesn't work.
I resubmit App B with the new API key and it is approved in a few days
and goes live a few days later.
3 Amazon sales during the same time of 601 sales on the regular
market.
App A is "approved" and waiting to go live in the store 27 days later.
During that time, I have updated the normal market version a couple of
times so the Amazon app is already behind and I'd have to go through
this all this again.
Pretty ridiculous right now.

Post by Pent
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

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[Brandon Newsome]

Do you even see the amazon market becoming more popular than Android market?
I just don't see that ...but yeah I can understand why you're worried.

They want too much too soon.

Post by Felipemnoa
It just feels like amazon is using us. If they win and become more popular

than google's market place I get the feeling that they will be worse than
apple. Dictating whatever they want just because they can. At least in Apple
you can still set your own price.

Post by Felipemnoa
The Google market place is not perfect but being able to make instant

updates is priceless IMO.

Post by Felipemnoa

Post by Pent
Thanks for your input folks.
It doesn't sound like something I want to go through until their sales
increase dramatically!
Pent

Post by adamxcl
Although I had high hopes, my experience has been pretty sad. I'd have
to say it isn't worth the process until they get their act together.
I submitted two apps and followed their screens pretty well. About a
week later, both apps are approved. But then they need to go through a
second mysterious process after approval before going live. I think
it's where they set it up to work live on the web for users to test. 5
days after being approved, App A is rejected because I didn't set up
the Google API for Maps properly. Their initial screens really don't
make it very clear until you have gone back with a point of reference.
I correct that and resubmit it. I know the second app, App B should be
rejected with the same API problem. There is no way online to pull a
app yourself. You have to email support or wait until they do
something about it. They make App B, with the API problem live in the
store for users even though it doesn't work.
I resubmit App B with the new API key and it is approved in a few days
and goes live a few days later.
3 Amazon sales during the same time of 601 sales on the regular
market.
App A is "approved" and waiting to go live in the store 27 days later.
During that time, I have updated the normal market version a couple of
times so the Amazon app is already behind and I'd have to go through
this all this again.
Pretty ridiculous right now.

Post by Pent
Would anyone be so good as to give a current sales ratio for their
app(s) on Amazon and Android markets ?

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Post by Felipemnoa

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